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Lazarus
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temp chat thread

Post by Lazarus » Wed Jun 12, 2019 7:03 am

Somewhere to talk while I get the site organised.

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Re: temp chat thread

Post by Lazarus » Sat Jun 22, 2019 9:44 am

During posting. Under your post are several tabs 'options', 'attachments', and 'dice rolls'. So we do have a functional die roller now. Not sure if that was there during our previous attempts, I never saw it if it was.
1d12+2d10

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Re: temp chat thread

Post by Lazarus » Sun Jun 23, 2019 1:05 am

I've rewritten the 'Tie Off' Ability to be more potent. It's more affordable to use it to negate the cost of maintaining an Ability. I've also noted that it can't influence an Ability doing damage as a matter of game balance. I'll likely work through all the other 3 tier support abilities to bring them more in line, but I'm gonna start on Sarah's updates first.

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Re: temp chat thread

Post by Lazarus » Sun Jun 23, 2019 1:33 am

I'll reflect these aesthetics in the rule threads but I though I should explain some design choices here first.

Abilities that do or can potentially do direct damage are typically limited to 1d6 and 1 save per tier. Inventive use of your Abilities may gain you xp, edge, or some other advantage, but is unlikely to bolster damage.

Abilities that bolster another attack half that by alternating between adding a die or a save each level.

Abilities that bolster an existing attack Ability will not add damage die or saves, but can reduce dc's, increase range, increase spread, reduce defences, or otherwise assist.

Most three tier Abilities supporting five tier Abilities will be geared to support tier 1 at 1, tier 2-3 at 2, and tier 4-5 at 3.

After I vet the Abilities thread I'll check character sheets looking for anything that should be changed. Please let me know if you think I miss something in either the Abilities or a character sheet.

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Re: temp chat thread

Post by Lazarus » Sun Jun 23, 2019 2:20 am

I've done some editing, but my baby is telling me to focus on her (she can crawl and stand against objects now).

I'm thinking the Shield Abilities need tweaking. To ablate/block both physical and energy attacks, and also to temporarily break under enough force.
Armour and shield items can break, shield Abilities can be breached, however armour Abilities can't break as they're part of the character. All of that needs to reflect concisely in the rules, (albeit when I can write without someone trying to tear off my ear).

Sarah's been updated. It didn't take long once the new size altering rules were in place. I'll get Natzlin's conformation later.

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Re: temp chat thread

Post by Lazarus » Sat Jun 29, 2019 11:46 am

It's late so I'll have to get back into this tomorrow. I'll try to make some time, then I'll have a busy week. I'll try to make some time then too, but I don't want to promise anything.

Brainstorming on shields and forcefields. I don't think they work as written. None of you have used them, nor has it seemed appropriate for any of the fleshed out npc's. Armour makes sense with the rule that it can be cut through on heavy blows, but with real world and fictional shields they typically break before any significant damage transfers through.

It'll make the rules a little more complicated but I think Shields need a health score, that damage doesn't go through until that's chipped away, and a lesser value to penetrate with one blow.

Any comment on how this sounds:
tier 1. Block=4 /shatter=8/dismantle=24
tier 2. Block=8/shatter=12/dismantle=36
tier 3. Block=12/shatter=16/dismantle=48
So the block value hasn't changed, that's what the shield can block without damaging the shield or its wielder. Shatter is a number that if exceeded wrecks the shield. Dismantle is how much damage (that wasn't blocked) the shield can absorb overall. Any damage over the shatter or dismantle value transfers to the wielder and renders the shield useless. The values could be higher in the case of something fancy such as captain America's shield, or lower with say an aluminium bin lid.

Those values may be too high for Ability based forcefields, especially as they're not as easily bypassed as a held object, and that a forcefield can be reapplied or regenerate. That will require more thought.

The numbers above may need revising regardless, I'm thinking block and shatter look too close together, and maybe some/all blocked damage should count towards dismantle? I could follow rule of three and have block go 3/6/9, while shatter goes 9/15/21, and dismantle 18/36/54. I think I like those numbers better but my brain for math is going, so I'll need to review after sleep. Realism is somewhat defied, but the 'hollywood rules' has a lot of precedent to it, and anything with 'armour piercing' will ignore tier 1, and is likely to punch through tier 2 like tissue paper.

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Re: temp chat thread

Post by Xhosant » Sat Jun 29, 2019 9:41 pm

Well, historically speaking, shields come in 2 flavors:

The permanent one: more a matter of what it's facing, like the metal shield meant to handle arrows popular in western Asia.

The temporary one: considered disposable, but that is a feature. A blade hacking through the shield renders the shield useless, but is inconveniently stuck in it.

Considering modern materials, what I'd do (if willing to work with the complexity) is:

Shields may be bypassed (come into play when an attack hits within a margin), they have a value of damage reduction, hp, and take double the damage not blocked (so major blows are disproportionately effective against them). If the shield is broken by melee, it involves an action cost to be able to use the same weapon again, and a penalty until that's done. Overkill damage spills over.

On a simpler matter, force fields should probably operate as temporary hp, soaking up an appropriate amount of death/maim etc checks* (starting with the biggest served), regenerating some every round (potentially only/faster on undamaged turns), costing some power to be on/regenerate, or by turning a certain amount of damage per blow directly to power point damage.

* Appropriate saves likely based on damage % blocked. 3 maims on a 15 damage blow would mean 1 maim eaten up per 5 damage blocked.

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Re: temp chat thread

Post by Lazarus » Sat Jun 29, 2019 10:31 pm

Ok lets review this, see how it works out.

[quote]block go 3/6/9, while shatter goes 9/15/21, and dismantle 18/36/54[/quote]

So for all examples lets assume the target has a very high Block Skill.

tier 1 shield vs pistol. Blocks half the shots, won't shatter, but will likely be dismantled in an average 8 unblocked shots.
tier 1 vs anything with armour piercing rounds. Values reduced to tier zero, penetrated completely.
tier 1 vs rifle. Only blocks 1/6 of shots, shattered by 1/6, dismantles on average in 3 shots.
tier 1 vs chainsaw. 1/216 block, shattered by a little over 1/2, dismantles on average 2 blows.

That looks about right actually. Useful against small stuff, and a very temporary barrier against something heavier.

tier 2 vs pistol. Immune.
Tier 2 vs anything armour piercing. counts as tier 1.
Tier 2 vs rifle. Blocks nearly half, won't shatter, dismantles on average in 5 unblocked shots.
Tier 2 vs chainsaw. Blocks about 1/10, shatter about 1/10, dismantle in 4 blows.

Still looks about right. Perfect for blocking small stuff, fair against medium, and will hold off something heavy for a few hits.

Tier 3 vs pistol. Immune.
Tier 3 vs anything armour piercing. counts as tier 2.
Tier 3 vs rifle. Nearly immune. Average 36 blows to dismantle.
Tier 3 vs chainsaw. Block nearly 2/3, about 1/10 shatter, and around 12 blows to dismantle.

Still looks right. This is portable wall territory so it should be tough but not invulnerable. Alright I'll edit these numbers into the rules thread.

Oh and lets see comparative to the toughest weapon in the party. Shiro's blade.
Blade at full power is 3d6 damage and 1 armour piercing.
blade vs tier 1. Barrier may as well not be there.
blade vs tier 2. 1/216 block, shatter over 1/2, and dismantle in 2 blows.
Blade vs tier 3. Block about 1/10, shatter about 1/10, and dismantle in 4 blows.

I doubt it'll come up much with Shiro's preference for stealth, but it looks like he'd only lose a round going through the toughest of conventional shields.

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Re: temp chat thread

Post by Lazarus » Sat Jun 29, 2019 10:34 pm

That last post was written before I saw your post Xhosant. Text came up blank until I tried posting it with BBCode disabled. I'm guessing something in all the math made it screwy or possible a issue with the quote?

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Re: temp chat thread

Post by Lazarus » Sat Jun 29, 2019 11:23 pm

You raise some good points.

Barriers I'll have to adjudicate as the situation arises, but the system I've written gives me something to work from. Makes sense that the block is perfect unless an opponent holds action back to shoot out of sequence, or the character using the barrier doesn't save action to duck back down. So they're either fully defended by a tier 2-3 shield or they have the 2-3 defence bonus.

Trapping weapons with the shield is something I hadn't thought of. Not sure how to implement it without complicating the rules more than I like. Given we've gone through about three and a half thousand game posts without anyone even using a shield I'll set the concept aside for now.

All the new rules are regarding successful blocks, so regarding saving throws they should mostly be negated. I probably need to note "when a blow shatters or dismantles a shield, each 3 points of damage soaked negates a saving throw." So it'd be very rare for a saving throw to come into play.

------------------

Forcefields. We used them a lot in the space opera. They had their own health, regen rate, and downtime if ruptured.

As currently written in the rules they're double strength armour with a facing. Either powered per round, or reactive using unspent action points. They don't need a block skill, and I think even revised they shouldn't need block.

---------------------

Baby needs full attention so I'll come back to forcefields, and editing the rules.

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Re: temp chat thread

Post by Lazarus » Sun Jun 30, 2019 1:24 am

Alright baby is down for a nap, and wife is asleep. I'll see if I can mock up a 5 tier forcefield that works better than what's in place.
First a review of what's there:
Two types reactive and active. (Keeping this.)
Two types kinetic or energy. (Scrapping this. Makes sense to split up armor, but for shields it's too restrictive.)
Block 4 or ablate 2. (Scrapping this. Switching towards the new shield system.)
Shields have facing. (keeping this. Character will need 'Dome' Ability for full cover.)
Active costs power and 6 action per round. (keeping this. 'Tie Off' Ability becomes nigh vital.)
Reactive costs power and 1 action when triggered. (keeping action cost, but relegating power cost to only when activating or reactivating.)

Ok so lets look at tweaking the new shield rule to fit forcefields. I think the break point is too high for a regenerating energy field. The Ability should be potent though as Abilities with action and energy costs are the most potent.

tier 1) block 3, break 6, health 9, regen 1
tier 2) block 6, break 11, health 18, regen 4
tier 3) block 9, break 16, health 24, regen 9
tier 4) block 12, break 21, health 30, regen 16
tier 5) block 15, break 26, health 36, regen 25

Very potent at tier 5. But that could be anywhere from 75 to 135 sunk points (if also Tie Off and Dome). Tier 5 Abilities are meant to be potent.
I'm not gonna play through the math this time, it looks right so it'll do.

Baby is awake again. So adding these rules into posts might wait for a third session. :roll:

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Re: temp chat thread

Post by ggwow1 » Sun Jun 30, 2019 9:38 am

looks good to me, might need to remember to add dome and tie off to future power requests by the looks of it :)

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Re: temp chat thread

Post by Lazarus » Mon Jul 01, 2019 6:06 am

ggwow1 wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 9:38 am
looks good to me, might need to remember to add dome and tie off to future power requests by the looks of it :)
Tie Off will definitely help you. I think I've recommended it a few times. It should be especially useful since I increased its potency. You probably want tier 2. Tier 1 would let Rose maintain basic telepathic contact with allies, or keep a basic sensory field going without burning energy or action. Tier 2 would allow a more involved telepathic link, monitor for hostile thoughts, support a collapsing roof, or something like straight line flying car rides. Those are just obvious examples. It would help Rose maintain most non destructive psychic efforts.

Dome seems less useful for Rose's current power set. Not useless, but you'd have to get creative. Probably better to spend points elsewhere.

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Re: temp chat thread

Post by ggwow1 » Mon Jul 01, 2019 8:47 am

cool tier 2 Tie Up next on the shopping list then :D

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Re: temp chat thread

Post by Lazarus » Wed Jul 03, 2019 6:12 pm

Struggling to find time to work on this. The new shield mechanics are inserted in the rule threads. Leaving for work in 40 minutes tops, so I won't be doing anything significant in this session.

Thought of another significant use for Tie Off. Regeneration. Using a healing Ability and leaving it running. I'd deem it useless in combat, but very useful for patching up multiple people comparatively fast between encounters. In the same vein it makes it worth Sarah getting so she can use it with her detox powers.

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Re: temp chat thread

Post by Lazarus » Wed Jul 03, 2019 6:21 pm

Tweaked the Luck requirements for the Beloved of Luck Ability.

Note to self. Edit the Ability chain <Energy> Resistance 1/<Energy> Immunity 2/<Energy> Absorption 3 It currently has 4 tiers, should be reduced to 3.

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Re: temp chat thread

Post by Lazarus » Sat Jul 06, 2019 8:59 pm

I believe I've cleared up all the glaring issues, so I should be ready to advertise and prep book 2 chapter 1. Does everyone concur or is there something I've missed?

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Re: temp chat thread

Post by Xhosant » Sat Jul 06, 2019 11:56 pm

Can't spot any issues or omisions, so let's bring it on!

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Re: temp chat thread

Post by Lazarus » Tue Jul 16, 2019 7:51 am

Sorry for the delay. In the middle of a 12 day work week, and some of it's 10-11 hour shifts. I haven't had the time and focus to work on an ad for book 2 yet.

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Re: temp chat thread

Post by ggwow1 » Tue Jul 16, 2019 8:47 am

thanks for the heads up and hope things get easier so you can concentrate on the important stuff! :)

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